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Understanding doubt and aversion.

Joseph Goldstein · Insight Meditation Society - Forest Refuge · April 2017 at IMS - Forest Refuge · 3 April 2017 · 1 h

0:12 In one description of the Buddha's enlightenment, he is sitting under the Bodhi tree with the firm resolve not to get up from his seat until he has attained full realization, full awakening. Suggest a fix

0:31 So just imagine coming into the hall, sitting on your seat. I am not going to get up until you can appreciate the strength and the power of his resolve. And as the night progressed, it's said that different forces of Māra, the embodiment of ignorance and delusion, appeared before him, appeared in his mind. There were terrifying visions of violence and very seductive visions of heavenly pleasures. And then one sentence describes the tremendous power, the transformative power, of this path. There's one sentence which described the quality of the Buddha's mind as he faced these forces of Māra. And his mind was described as, and the mind of the great being was not moved. I just love that. Suggest a fix

1:45 All of this is arising in the mind, the terrifying visions and the seductive visions. And the mind of the great being was not moved. So this line can be the reference point for our own practice. You know, in whatever posture we are, in whatever activity, we're sitting, we're walking, we're doing our yogi job, we're moving from place to place, what had to look at what has the power to agitate our minds? How are our own minds seduced or moved by what is arising? When we look, we see that this agitation, we could call it this seduction, happens on many levels. It happens on very obvious levels and it can happen on very subtle levels. We can get overwhelmed by strong emotions. Suggest a fix

2:52 We all know what that experience is like. An emotional storm takes us over. We're carried away by it. We can get lost in background moods. Maybe it's not a big storm. Maybe it's just some mood arising in the heart, in the mind, in the body, and we're not aware of it, and that becomes the filter on our experience. We can get lost in, get moved by, Identified with the various thoughts that are going through the mind. Sometimes long trains of thought. Sometimes very fleeting thoughts. But if we're not mindful of them as they arise, we get caught up. We get agitated by them. We can get caught up by identification with consciousness itself. Suggest a fix

3:52 So this is the most subtle form, and we'll be talking more about this in the coming weeks. Suggest a fix

4:01 Identify with consciousness, creating the self in the knower. So the Buddha highlighted a number of these particularly seductive states. And it's essential in our practice that we learn to recognize them. Because they're very deeply ingrained habits of mind. They're habitual patterns of mind, of all of our minds. And the Buddha recognized them and named them 2 ,600 years ago. And we're still experiencing these very same states in our own lives. And we want to explore not only their nature, what is the particular nature of each of these states, but also, and what's of great interest, is to explore what makes them so alluring. Suggest a fix

4:59 Why is it that we get caught up in them again and again? Suggest a fix

5:08 When we explore these patterns, You know, with mindfulness and with interest, we begin to see that it's not simply a question of our own personal difficulty or our own individual problem. But we see that these qualities first are universal. They arise in all of us. And these difficult states are precisely the place where we can explore the possibility of freedom. We really can see, in both becoming lost in them and becoming mindful of them, we can see so directly the nature of ignorance and the nature of awareness, the nature of suffering and the nature of freedom. So this then is not a question of Buddhist philosophy or theory. We're actually experiencing this in our own practice, in our own lives, and that is the beauty of being on retreat. Suggest a fix

6:18 Our experience is so direct and so immediate. Suggest a fix

6:24 If we have this attitude of interest and investigation, it's actually possible to become happy when these difficulties arise because we're in that space of preferring to see them than not see them. You know, whenever the difficulties arise, oh. I'm glad I have a chance to see you, to explore you, rather than simply getting lost in our habitual pattern. So this is a big shift in our practice because we tend to be very self -judgmental when difficult mind states or afflictive emotions arise. But we can turn that to interest, to delight. Oh, this is a chance to learn something. Suggest a fix

7:22 The more we practice... Being mindful of these seductive, difficult mind states, the stronger and more stable our awareness becomes. So it's actually, if we know how to work with them, it's actually strengthening our practice. Because we're developing that strength of mind that even in the face of storms, whatever they may be, Or in the face of just, you know, passing thoughts or the different moods. And the mind of the great being was not moved. You know, we're actually practicing that for ourselves, so it can be tremendously inspiring. So tonight I'd like to speak about two particular strong habit patterns of mind. Suggest a fix

8:26 And they're two of what the Buddha called, and you're very familiar with, the five hindrances. I'd like to speak about doubt and aversion. So there are a couple of steps in working with each of the hindrances. I don't know what's with any of them. And the first step is clear recognition. We really need to be able to see very clearly and to recognize the telltale signs of doubt and aversion and the other hindrances as well. Because they often come Masquerading as something skillful. And this is that Māra is so tricky. You know, Māra is the embodiment of delusion. So one of these hindrances will arise and it'll be masquerading as something wholesome. So unless we learn how to really see clearly, see through the disguise, then we get caught up more easily. Suggest a fix

9:36 A big part of our practice is familiarizing ourselves with the signs of each of these hindrances, how they show themselves to us. In English, the word doubt can refer to two very different mind states. It can be a little confusing because there is a skillful kind of doubt. That's the doubt that's the opposite of dogmatic belief. You know, and it's the quality of questioning, of investigating, of seeing for ourselves, not believing blindly. So, we might call this investigative doubt. You know, just so we know, yeah, this is wholesome. This is a skillful state to arouse. Suggest a fix

10:34 The unskillful aspect, just in terms of terminology, maybe we should call skeptical doubt. And this... This is the quality of indecision or perplexity. It's like being at a crossroads and not knowing which way to go. And the mind just goes back and forth. Should I do this? Should I do that? Should I go here? Should I go there? And as long as this doubt, this kind of skeptical doubt is strong, we don't go anyplace. And that's why this particular hindrance Of all of them is the most dangerous, it's the most harmful, because it can bring our practice and also our lives, because it plays out in our lives as well. Suggest a fix

11:26 It brings it, as I said, just to a stencil. We don't do anything. We're not even willing to act and make a mistake and learn from the mistake. You know, the doubt is a plague. And it's interesting, you know, that again in English there's the phrase, somebody is plagued by doubt. Because it is a plague. Suggest a fix

11:53 With all the other hindrances, even with desire or aversion or sleepiness, we're still in the game. We may be going through a storm and it's unsettling or agitating, but we're kind of still in some way present for what's going on. In doubt, we've just stepped out of the whole game. Because we're caught up. In this perplexity, this indecision, Suggest a fix

12:27 there's a wonderful line in the book The Life of Pi by Jan Martel. It came out quite a few years ago, but maybe you've read it. He wrote, to choose doubt, this kind of skeptical doubt, as a philosophy of life is like choosing immobility as a means of transportation. Suggest a fix

12:54 It's not a very skillful choice. Immobility doesn't get us anyplace. Suggest a fix

13:04 Although most of us here, I'm sure probably everybody here, has quite a strong confidence in the Buddhist teachings. I mean, it's why we're here and why you're so committed to practice. But still, doubt can take some very particular forms in our meditation practice. Even when we have a lot of faith in the teachings. And as we pay attention, we can learn to recognize more quickly the particular kinds of doubt that can arise for each one of us. Suggest a fix

13:48 You know, for all of us. For everyone who practices. It's inevitable that at certain times difficulties will arise. I don't know, maybe there's a yogi. Somewhere in the world that just sits down and ten minutes later is fully enlightened. But that's not really how it happens. There are lots of ups and downs and difficulties and challenges and this is part of our practice. This is what the practice is. This is why it's called practice. We need to practice with these changes. But if these If these difficulties are not understood correctly, if we're not seeing them correctly, then it can lead to a lot of doubting thoughts about what method we're using. Suggest a fix

14:51 Really question, what am I doing here? I'm sure in the course of your time here, at least once you will have the thought, what am I doing here? What does sitting, watching my breath? Or feeling a step have anything to do with all the suffering that's going on in the world. You know, these doubts are going to come. Or we might start comparing practices. You know, many of you, maybe not all of you, but many of you probably have done different kinds of practices. And so you're sitting here and maybe some challenges come. Oh, Sufi dancing is much more fun. You know, maybe Tibetan mantras, you know, and I'll be in a state of bliss. So we start comparing practices. Suggest a fix

15:53 Or even within this tradition, I've been teaching retreats where yogis really have driven themselves crazy with the doubt. Should I do mettā? Should I do vipassanā? There was one yogi on a three -month retreat. For the entire retreat, whenever he was doing vipassanā, oh, maybe I should do mettā. So I said, fine, do mettā. And whenever he was doing mettā, oh, no, maybe I should do vipassanā. It was classic. I mean, I have to thank him for being able to tell this story. Because it is such a classic example of doubt. You know, should I do this? Should I do that? And we don't do anything. And that's the difficulty of it. Or maybe you're doing Vipassanā. You're quite settled in that. Suggest a fix

16:58 Oh, should I do a directed awareness? Should I do choiceless awareness? So then when we're just feeling the breath and working with, oh no, maybe I should open my mind. Oh, my mind's open. No, no, maybe I should. And it's not that one is right and one is wrong and there are actually ways of interweaving the two skillfully. But really have to pay attention whether we are understanding it skillfully or whether the mind is simply caught up in doubt related Suggest a fix

17:38 to what I was talking about this morning. Should I make a determined heroic effort? You know, really the warrior mode. Or should I be more relaxed in my practice? Settle back. Ease into things. And again, at different times, different approaches will be helpful. The thing to watch for is if doubt is taking over when you're doing any one of them and you're just getting confused. So perplexity or confusion is a sign. That's one of the signs that doubt is present. Suggest a fix

18:27 Even more deeply ingrained than doubt about our practice is The very strong habit pattern of self -doubt. This is doubting our very ability to practice. We may have a clear idea of faith in the teachings and know what practice we're doing, but then as we're facing difficulties or challenges, we start to doubt ourselves. So this is very common. Am I doing it right? Am I doing this right? Maybe this isn't the right time. You know, I have so much going on in my life. Maybe I'll come back next year. Suggest a fix

19:21 Sometimes external situations can trigger self -doubt. Feelings of not being good enough. You know, I'm not a good enough yogi. This comes when we begin to see really what's going on in our minds. I remember when I first began practice in Bodhgaya with Manindraji. So this was my first. Most of you are much more experienced now than I was then. But when I first started practicing and I saw all the defilements in my mind, I would just go running to manindraji. I didn't say this exactly, but it's what I felt. Oh, I'm such a terrible person. Look at all of these unwholesome parts of the mind that are arising. Suggest a fix

20:13 And in working with Sayadaw Upandita, which was many years later, he had the very great skill, the expression, to push your buttons. He would just say things to push my button, to cause a reaction in my mind. One way or another, some comment about my practice or what was arising, and it would just trigger all this self -judgment. You know, all this self -doubt. And I remember going in for one interview. I had been there some time at that point. And I gave my report. And he just proceeded to list all of the defilements that were present in my mind, in what I reported. And by that time, fortunately, when he did that, I just started to laugh. Because it just seemed so funny to me at that point. Suggest a fix

21:17 It took me quite a while to get there. As soon as I was able to start laughing at it, he stopped doing it. It was amazing. The whole relationship changed. And the interviews from that time on, it was never that pushing the buttons. Because by that time, I could take it more lightly. I could see it. Each one was a chance just to see, to learn. So we really want to be very watchful. You know, this kind of self -doubt. Suggest a fix

21:56 You know, very often self -doubt arises because we're personalizing what's impersonal. So I'll give you an example. At the retreat center, we don't do it here, but at the retreat center during the long course, three -month course, we post the interview sheets. And they're in four -day cycles. And each day has another letter. So the first day... There's the letter A before each yogi. The second day, there's the letter B before each yogi. Well, the yogis don't know what the letters stand for. Suggest a fix

22:33 The D day yogis, some of them, oh my God, I'm a D yogi. I'm not an A yogi. Suggest a fix

22:46 And all of this self -doubt would come up. Of course, all it was was the day in which they were scheduled for interviews. But our mind just will jump to these kind of self -doubting conclusions. When self -doubt is strong, and it's strong in a lot of people in different situations, this is not an uncommon pattern. It's not only a hindrance in meditation. Self -doubt is a huge hindrance in one's life. It really becomes a debilitating force. It's always undermining us, keeping us from going forward. Suggest a fix

23:37 If we don't learn to recognize all of these kinds of doubt when they arise, they become self -fulfilling. Because if these doubts are coming, the self -doubts, the doubts about the practice in one way or another, because doubt itself is the state of perplexity. Of indecision, of immobility. So if we're not seeing that, if we're not recognizing it, it becomes self -fulfilling. And in fact, our meditation and our lives do come to a standstill in that way. So this is really a very important aspect of the practice and one's own mind and experience to investigate. Suggest a fix

24:34 The doubting mind, in particular self -doubt, there's an interesting description of the effect of it. It's likened to a thorny mind, a thorn that keeps jabbing. If you jab the skin with the thorn, it gets very irritated. Well, doubt is like a thorn jabbing the mind. And when it's strong, It gets irritated. It gets discouraged. And we really do start to give up. Suggest a fix

25:17 Sometimes self -doubt can come from an underlying feeling which in some people, not everyone, but not uncommonly either, self -doubt can come from the underlying feeling of unworthiness. For whatever reason of our conditioning, That can become a deep pattern within us of just feeling unworthy. Suggest a fix

25:51 His Holiness the Dalai Lama, he really said something very powerful to this because someone asked him a question about this. The question was, I do not feel worthwhile as a person. So that deep feeling. How can I work on this as a beginning meditation student? Well, it arises not only for beginning meditation students. Sometimes that pattern is deeply ingrained. And this is one of the few times when I saw his holiness in response to a question. He was so direct in his response. He said, you should not be discouraged. Your feeling of I am of no value is wrong. Absolutely wrong. You are deceiving yourself. So this is a very interesting response. Suggest a fix

27:01 And Sokni Rinpoche, who is a contemporary Tibetan Dzogchen teacher, he had a very interesting teaching about this. So he tells a story of, he was on a small plane, you know, flying someplace in Nepal, and it was very, very bumpy, you know, and the plane was going up and down and up and down. And there was a lot of fear, he said, arose. You know, you probably have been in that situation sometimes. It can get a little intense, especially in a small plane. So he was just telling that story, and then he said that at a later date, he was on another flight, and it was perfectly smooth, but the same fear arose, you know, conditioned by the first flight. Suggest a fix

27:54 So he became interested. Well, Why is this fear arising and it's not bumpy now? And he elaborates on this story but basically he came to see and express his insight with this feeling of fear which we can apply to unworthiness and many other emotions. He said it's real but not true. So the fear was real. Unworthiness It's real in the sense that this is the feeling that's arising. So it's not denying. When the Dalai Lama says, you're wrong, you're absolutely wrong, you're deceiving yourself, he's not saying that the feeling is not there. It is there. And the feeling is real in the sense that it's there, but it's not true. And that's what the Dalai Lama was pointing to. Suggest a fix

28:53 Because all of us, the very nature of our minds, Have the potential, even for Buddhahood, for awakening. So to feel that one is unworthy or not worthwhile as a person, we are deceiving ourselves. We're not seeing the real nature of our hearts and minds. So do you understand this? It's real but not true. So we acknowledge, yes, this is the feeling, this is what's present, but we remind ourselves. Yes, this is here now, but it's not true. And so that helps us extricate ourselves, step out from being lost in it. Suggest a fix

29:41 Okay, the Buddha highlighted the importance of working with these different hindrances and difficult emotions, whether it's doubt, any of the other hindrances. And the Buddha is very straightforward here, as the teachings usually are. He said, when we attend to the hindrances, these difficult states, carelessly, they cause lack of vision, lack of knowledge, are detrimental to wisdom, tend to vexation, and lead away from Nibbāna. When these states arise, if we attend to them carelessly, It has all these consequences. Lack of vision, lack of knowledge, detrimental to wisdom, tending to vexation, leading away from nibbāna. Suggest a fix

30:50 So given all that, it can make us wonder, why would we ever be caught up in them? They only have unskillful consequences if we get lost. So what is their power? Why do we keep getting lost or caught up in them? What is their allure? Suggest a fix

31:23 So we begin to see, once we recognize the hindrance that's there, so that's the first step, is clear recognition. This is doubt. Suggest a fix

31:36 So what is the allure of it? Why do we get fooled by it? Suggest a fix

31:43 Doubt will come masquerading as wisdom. We hear this very wise -sounding voice in our minds. You know, or experience some very compelling feeling in the body. And it all seems so reasonable and so true. Suggest a fix

32:07 So it's very helpful to recognize each one of us, to recognize the particular ways doubt arises for us, because it'll be different for different of us. So we can learn to recognize its disguise. So maybe it will... come as a particular pattern of thought. Maybe certain thoughts will just keep arising. What's the point of doing this? You know, this is useless, or I'm not getting any place. Some other practice would be so much quicker. Aren't we already enlightened? So if it's through doubting thoughts, if it's a thought pattern that is predominant for you, Really pay attention. Every time you see that thought, that's doubt. That's doubt. But we need to recognize what the thought pattern is. Suggest a fix

33:15 And as I say, it will be different for each one of us. Pay attention. Suggest a fix

33:25 If we can see through the disguise and recognize doubt, oh, this is just another thought. It's just another passing thought. Why am I doing this? We see it as a thought. It comes and goes. There's no problem. It's only when it seduces us, when we believe it, that's when we get caught up. Sometimes doubt will manifest not as a particular thought. Sometimes it might be a mood, kind of just a background mood. Moods are tricky because they're not strongly defined objects of experience. A mood is very amorphous. It's kind of like fog or a cloud. There's no specific outline to a mood and say, oh, there it is. Suggest a fix

34:27 So very often, moods are arising. Maybe there are pleasant ones and unpleasant ones, but those associated with doubt might be discouragement or just feeling down. You know, low energy. So, to be aware of a mood takes a little refinement, you know, in our skill. Because we can't just, there it is. With moods, it's much more, we have to back up and become receptive. When we are aware that a mood is present, I find it tremendously interesting. Because it is more subtle. Okay, can I back up? Just let the mood and the awareness of the mood emerge. It arises in awareness, so we're not trying to pinpoint it. Suggest a fix

35:29 As soon as we become mindful of the mood, it no longer is the unconscious filter through which we're viewing experience. I'm sure you're familiar with that, when you're in a mood and then everything is colored by the mood because we're not seeing it. You know, as another arising experience. Suggest a fix

36:01 Sometimes we become aware of doubt through certain feelings in the body. Some people are very body -oriented. And so maybe there's some feeling in the body that's telling us doubt is present. So just check out whether that's how it is for you. Maybe it's some tightness or contraction or stuckness. Something. It may be a thought, it may be a mood, it may be a body sensation, but really investigate for yourselves how doubt manifests. Because it's only if you recognize the sign of it that you then have the opportunity to be mindful of it and to not be caught up in it. Suggest a fix

37:06 I'm editing. Otherwise this talk would go on and on and on. Suggest a fix

37:13 Okay, I think I talked a lot about doubt. Another mind state that powerfully conditions our lives, not only doubt, is the mind state, the emotion of aversion. And we experience aversion in a lot of different ways. It takes a lot of different forms. It can be anger. It can be hatred. It can be annoyance. It can be irritation. It can be fear. It can be ill will. It can be grief. It can be the judging mind. All of these are forms of aversion. They're mind states which are conditioned by our reactions to what we find unpleasant. This is the pattern of conditioning. Something is unpleasant in our experience and the conditioned reaction, The habitual reaction to what's unpleasant, unless we're really being mindful, will be one of these forms of aversion. Suggest a fix

38:33 We don't like it. Suggest a fix

38:38 So as with doubt, we can learn to become mindful of all of these different expressions of aversion when they arise. And we have to learn to recognize them. Otherwise, we just get caught up and are reconditioning that pattern. So aversion... Often arises in some very predictable ways. There's lots of opportunities to observe this, to be with it. Very easy to see aversion in relationship to pain, to physical pain. There are probably very few of you, when pain comes, who say, oh, good. This is just a chance for me to be with it. Maybe at a certain point in your practice it might be like that, but the habitual reaction to pain is aversion. We don't like it. Suggest a fix

39:36 It's unpleasant. Suggest a fix

39:41 And so when these unpleasant sensations arise in the body, as they will for everybody, we often feel, and we can feel, we can feel the contraction, where we're pulling back from it, where we feel impatience or a sense of struggle with it. We just don't like what's happening. Suggest a fix

40:06 When you're feeling some contraction in your energy system or you're feeling some sense of struggle, you know, whether you're sitting and it's just kind of you're struggling to let things unfold or in the walking or moving about, that sense of struggle or that contraction is almost always a signal that aversion is present in the mind. And so... It becomes a very good feedback for us. It's a chance, okay, let me look at this. So Suggest a fix

40:46 Sayadaw Utejaniya, you know, this wonderful Hermes Sayadaw, he has some very good advice. He says, you have to accept and watch both pleasant and unpleasant experiences. You only want pleasant experiences. You don't want even the... Tiniest unpleasant experience. Is this fair? Is this the way of the dharma? So it's just the recognition that unpleasant sense, this is just part of life. It's going to happen. Given the body, given the nature of the body, we all experience it. Pain is going to come at different times or different levels of unpleasant. It is our practice. We need to practice settling back. Suggest a fix

41:44 Opening to, relaxing into. And the ability to do that will be strengthened if we recognize when the aversion is there. Because probably the first reaction will be the aversion, dislike, the fear, the judgment, whatever form it takes. If we're not aware of that initial reaction, we can spend a long time. In that reactive mode. So we need to see that, and then in the mindfulness of that, it's much easier to remind ourselves, oh, okay, not liking, not wanting. Take a deep breath. Okay, can I just feel the pain? Can I just be with it? And so we kind of coach ourselves back into a more mindful, relaxed relationship to it. Suggest a fix

42:51 What's so interesting about aversion, it's so... Deep, and as many of you know, this is not uprooted until the third stage of enlightenment, until what's called non -return onagami. That's a pretty high level. That's what Deepa Ma, our teacher in India, it's said that that's the level she was at, very high level of realization. It's only at that level that a version is uprooted. So best to become familiar with it. And to learn how to be with it skillfully because it is going to be there. So with pain, it's fairly obvious. You know, we can see it. But what's so interesting is so many other situations where aversion arises which are ridiculous. Suggest a fix

43:48 So, for example, aversion can arise when we think about a painful or difficult situation in the past. How often does this happen? A lot. You know, we're reliving old experiences, some of which were unpleasant or painful. We're having these thoughts and images in the mind and then getting angry or upset. This happened to all of us. But what's really happening there? We're getting angry at a thought. The situation is not happening now. All that's happening in the moment is that there's a thought in the mind or an image in the mind. Maybe a feeling in the body. Suggest a fix

44:38 Munindraji, one of his great lines, his great teaching lines, he's my first teacher, he said, the thought of your mother is not your mother. It's a thought. Suggest a fix

44:53 The thought of anything is not the thing. It's a thought. But we often don't see that and we just get caught up thinking that that's the reality in this moment and then we're enmeshed in all of the reactivity. So we want to see this. This is common. This happens to all of us. But we can learn to be a little more attentive to it. Even more ridiculous than that is getting angry or upset about an imagined, anticipated future event. So it hasn't even happened. But we're sitting... Imagining something will happen, and then we get afraid or angry. Suggest a fix

45:53 The mind is, from a certain perspective, and we're not always in this perspective, but from a certain perspective, we really have to be able to laugh. Because the mind does so many crazy things that cause suffering. But the beauty of being on retreat, the beauty of being here, and I've just come off retreat myself, I was just doing a self -retreat for about five and a half weeks, so I'm very freshly imbued with the power of it. And when through this, people ask me, how was your retreat? And I say, a retreat is always everything. It's always everything. You know, there was a lot of... Difficult, challenging stuff came up, and then the mind would get really quiet and go to deeper places of understanding. But the beauty of the retreat, you've given yourself this huge gift of this time of silence in this beautiful place. Suggest a fix

47:01 You have nothing else to do except to be aware. That's your job, just to be aware of whatever's arising. And by that and through that awareness, We learn how to be skillful with these difficult states. The aversion is going to come. Can we see it? Can we name it? Suggest a fix

47:32 It is important to also realize that sometimes strong emotions, even anger, can be conveying important information. So it's not always that we just want to see it and dismiss it or let it go. Sometimes people get angry in the face of injustice or, you know, when boundaries, personal boundaries are being violated in some unskillful way. Sometimes the anger we're feeling is telling us, no, there's some action that's needed. The really important thing is can we understand the message that's being conveyed, you know, about the situation on the retreat or in the world. Without being overwhelmed by the anger. We're taking the message, but then freeing ourselves from the angry response. Suggest a fix

48:42 You know, and the Buddha, again, all of his teachings are so direct. And even the things we've heard a million times, we're so familiar with. One of the things, again, I love about retreat is that we can hear the words that we may have read. Or heard many times, but when you're on retreat, sometimes they just go in, in a new and transforming way. I'm sure you've had that experience at different times. So when the Buddha said, hatred never ceases by hatred. It only ceases by love. That's powerful. That's not how most of the world is operating. And so we have to see, even when In the face of injustice or things that need addressing, Suggest a fix

49:37 can we free ourselves? Can we understand it? But free ourselves from the hatred, from the anger, and then act. Act out of love, act out of compassion. Suggest a fix

49:59 With aversion, sometimes it's unnoticed. Sometimes there are other unnoticed emotions which are fueling the anger. So if we're caught up, You know, in some kind of aversion, whether it's fear or anger, and we're looking at it and we're trying to be mindful of it and we're really investigating it, but somehow it just feels, you know, we're stuck in it in some way. It might be helpful to look, okay, is there something else that's going on that I'm not seeing, that's fueling, like an underground spring that's feeding the anger? Suggest a fix

50:45 So I'll just share with you one story. Years ago, I was teaching retreats for law students, lawyers, judges, you know, the legal, the legal world. Very interesting. And there was one third -year law student, and we were talking about, you know, anger and how to work with it. And this one third -year law student said something really interesting to me. He said, you know, I need. I need this anger and I need it so I don't have to feel the fear. So I thought, yeah, it's just so using anger as a way of avoiding another feeling because he had no idea how it was possible to be with fear in a skillful way. Suggest a fix

51:49 And to realize and to learn, and I've worked with this a lot, Once we learn how to accept and be with fear, very possible to act right in the face of fear. That does not have to be debilitating at all once we accept it. But he didn't know that. And so his only response to fear was to get angry. So this is what I mean. Sometimes it's underlying emotion or very commonly under anger. Maybe there's a feeling of hurt. You know, we've been hurt in some way, hurt emotionally, and if we don't open to that, if we're not aware of that, so then that can be feeding the anger. Suggest a fix

52:45 Okay, so what is the great seductive power of this? Why is it? Part of us loves it, you know, when this anger makes it strong, and, you know, we feel energetic, we feel powerful. Often the seduction of anger is the sweet feeling Suggest a fix

53:09 That kind of self -righteousness. Well, I should be angry because this person is doing this or that or, you know, yeah, I'm going to really be angry. Again, the Buddha's words, anger with its poisoned source and honeyed tip. It has a honey tip. Anger has a sweet, you know, that self -righteousness that we feel. Kind of a sweet feeling, but we're not seeing the poisoned source. The root of it is being ill -will and hatred. Suggest a fix

53:58 So there are many ways of working with aversion and anger and ill -will, and I'm sure you're familiar with them. But mostly it's just to be mindful when it's arising. We need to recognize it and not be seduced by that self -justification of it. Oh, well, I should be feeling angry. When we're lost in that, you know, that kind of self -righteous anger, I should be feeling this. Who's suffering? The other person's not suffering. We're the ones who are suffering. And yet we're holding on to it. It's like holding on to a hot, burning coal. And I shouldn't be holding on to this. Meanwhile, it's burning us. So on retreat, we have a chance to see this. Suggest a fix

54:49 You know, when it arises, See what your relationship to the anger is. Are you feeding it? Because of the tip of sweetness and not seeing really what's underneath it. Suggest a fix

55:07 The last little subtlety with respect to anger and aversion or fear or ill -will, one of the other things that feeds it and strengthens it is our aversion to the aversion. So if anger is there, Self -judgment. Fear is there. It's unpleasant, just like pain is unpleasant. And if we want to get rid of it, if we have aversion to it, pushing against it, that actually is strengthening it. It's like two playing cards resting against one another. Each one supports. So if there's ill will or anger, and then we have aversion to it, it just keeps both in place. It's like trying to get rid of aversion, Through aversion. Not very helpful. So we need to see if that's how we're relating. Suggest a fix

56:09 And it's a common response. Pay attention. Take a look at that and say, okay, can I let go of that resistance to it and just experience, oh, aversion feels like this, anger feels like this, fear feels like this. It's just another arising, passing mind state. And so we allow it to arise. rise and flow through. Suggest a fix

56:37 All of these hindrances are not intrinsic to the mind. They are visitors. They're all coming out of causes and conditions. They're not who we are. They don't belong to us. They don't define us. They're simply arising out of particular conditions. They will pass away. If we can learn to work with them skillfully, Then these very hindrances become the vehicle for our awakening. If we don't deal with them skillfully, then as the Buddha said, they lead to vexation away from wisdom, etc. So I would just like to close with just one line from the Persian poet Hafez. Suggest a fix

57:34 I love this. Ever since happiness heard your name, it has been running through the streets trying to find you. Suggest a fix

57:48 That's really our practice. The dharma has heard our name. You're all here. And it's been running through the streets trying to find us. And so the more we surrender and engage in this amazing practice, the fruit of so many different kinds of happiness. So let's sit for just a few moments. Suggest a fix

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59:41 Thank you for listening. To learn how you can support the teachers and Dharma Seed, please visit dharmaseed.org slash donate. Suggest a fix

Talk by Joseph Goldstein, recorded at Insight Meditation Society - Forest Refuge, 3 April 2017. Original at Dharma Seed: https://dharmaseed.org/talks/40112/. Licensed CC BY-NC-ND 4.0. Transcript generated automatically and may contain errors; the audio is the authoritative version.

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